our fbi data and our national government data show that the higher murder rates, the higher violent crime rates are in areas where gun ownership is discouraged and carrying is either illegal or discouraged. i don't know what they were looking at at harvard, but that is absolutely not what the data show. >> if you also look at the top ten states across the country and per capita gun ownership. five of those top ten states also have the highest gun deaths per capita. how do you explain that? >> they still have a low violent crime rate and a lower murder rate. so you're talking numbers versus rates, and i think that's probably where the disparity is coming in. >> last question for you here, larry. when we look at the problem ahead of us, several gun shows canceled in the wake of the newtown shooting, doesn't that go against the message that the nr ascent yesterday canceling the gun shows that canceling gun shows at least according to mr. lapierre's statements, need to be at schools and need to defend themselves. >> each gun show is privately owned and it's an owner's decision as to what to d